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Generated by this raging issue, both NYU and Vital Book have removed
important links and information from their web pages out of embarassment
in the exposure of their discusting behavior over this matter. Too bad it doesn't change how they actually behave. New York University
and other schools around the world are
pledging
themselves to only rent you an education under a limited
license protected by DMCA access protections. This is the first time
a publisher is willing to use the full force of the DMCA to prevent
the free access to information to the public in education
Vital Books has opened the gates to the right to read issue. Who
has a right to read information?
This is now what we can expect from a $30,000 a year education.
When you enter NYU Dental school you are going to be forced to rent
all your text books and learning material from
Vital Books who provide
your entire 4 year's of education on ONE single DVD, which expires
at the end of every year. Students are mandated to rent the material
which is accessed through a time locked software reader. Students
are registered as individual users and are not permited to share the
information with others. At the end of the year, the program is turned off
and the student looses access to the information they paid for. If
they graduate, they can get a lifetime license for as long as the software
or the computer that it runs on works. If they drop out or transfer,
they loose the investment in their books. Their fair use rights, including
the right to share the information with others in the normal course
of discourse, and the right to sell they're copy of the material, are
nullfied and extra legally.
What's in it for students who slave to get an education for 4 years?
Well they get to know that according to the Vital Books web page that
they have to live with a this distorted version of copyright for the rest
of their lives. According to Vital Books:
"Issues of copyright within some of these content streams are at best
rationalized away, at worst purposefully ignored."
This justifies, in their minds, the suspension of democratic rights
to free speech and property.
Even as section 107 of the copyright law makes a broad exemption for
education in the copyright law, vital books is going to end the fair use of
materials in dental schools without their preauthorization by forcing every
student to buy what they can never own!
In addition, students are being forced to buy more material than they require,
and this is a stated objective on the Vital Book web page.
In other words, if your a graduate and now a Dentist, and you need to
look up an important detail of a procedure before treating a patient,
you may be denied access under any number of conditions. You don't own any books!!
Vital Books is placed in an extortionary position in gaining access to vital information
needed to make important health decisions in their public service.
Here are some important details of their FAQ:
17. When I launch VitalViewerTM an "authorized user "
screen appears. Can I disable this function?
No. VSTi requires this function as a security measure and it
cannot be disabled. However it may be removed in later
versions. back
18. I need a new copy of VitalViewerTM.
Your Dean will handle all issues pertaining to this matter at
this time. back
19. I have lost my DVD or it is damaged.
If your DVD is damaged, please see your Dean to register a
new DVD. The damaged DVD must be sent to VSTi. If your
DVD is lost or stolen, we will replace it free of charge with a
copy of a police report or insurance claim. back
3. Who can use VitalViewerTMand can I share
VitalViewerTM with a friend or with upperclassmen?
Only registered students and faculty are legally allowed to
use the VitalViewerTM application or the VitalBookTM
DVD. Any unauthorized use or distribution of the
VitalViewerTM software is a major Copyright Violation and
is subject to legal action. Please don't make us do that.
31. You receive one of the following messages:
* "An error occurred during current date check
which will prevent further execution of a
TrialWare-enabled product."
* "Sorry, this software is too old to use. Please
contact your school about obtaining a more current
version."
* "An error occurred during current date check.
Please contact your support resources."
Your VitalViewer TM is time and date sensitive. It is
scheduled to expire early next semester. If you change the
date and time, the application will complain. This is a
security issue and will not be changed. If you have changed
the date and/or time and are receiving one of the above
messages you will need to go to the Dean's office. Please
bring your laptop with you to the Dean's office as you will
install the application right there. We cannot provide you
with a copy of the application. back
The issue of posted on Slashdot.org
with an airing out of the fustration by people to the power grab. At the end of the thread, Vital Books
responded to the issues. Unfortunately, the article had fallen of the board and most people missed the Vital
Books response. Here is an exerpt of the end of the thread:
by VitalGeek
(geekNOSPAM@vitalviewer.com)
on Monday August 28, @06:00PM EST
(User #227449 Info)
http://www.vitalviewer.com
I would have replied sooner, but I was on an airplane. (Now why don't we have 802.11 in the air?)
First off, I think everyone here was taken aback by being compared to facists, evildoers or harbingers of a RMS nightmare.
There are quite a few misconceptions that are permeating through the thread. Let me try to clarify some of these...
1. This isn't the situation that RMS describes. A licensed user can let someone look at their book. They aren't allowed to give copies of the books to their friends, but then again, you can't legally go xerox a whole book either. (This is regardless of the DMCA.)
2. The users who decide to continue the service will get to keep those editions of the books that they have when they leave school. We are working out the details so that a subscription model is in place for those folks who have graduated can have the most up to date references in one place.
Contrast this with the 40 year old dentist who still has their textbooks from college. Do you want them to be using those 15 year old books as a reference or the latest available information? Right now (before VitalBook), they have to purchase the latest edition at full cost - with us, they can pay less for a subscription and stay up to date. If they don't want the subscription, then they just keep the last edition that they recieved.
Either way, they get to keep access the books if they paid for them in school.
It is almost entirely like the CodeWarrior subscription model.
3. VitalBooks cost less. There are a lot more books than the required amount before, and you get all that extra content for the same price as you used to pay for less content on paper. You get more information for the same cost. This isn't a price gouging ploy. You get more for the same price you would have paid with a paper version.
4. Information isn't free. Someone had to write the textbook, someone had to draw the drawings, someone had edit the content, someone had to review the content to make sure the content was correct. That goes into most every book.
5. A VitalBook disc has ~ 7 GB of content and over 100 books on one disc.
6. Schools determine what books go onto the disc. They give us a list and we try to get every book on the list on the disc. Usually, we even put more on the disc. I don't know of a case where we limited what a school could put on a disc - notwithstanding those publishers who we could not negoiate a license with.
7. Our WWW site sucks. It is so bad that we have been obsessed about making a good product that we dropped the ball on Internet marketing?
8. Why is purchase mandated at the schools who use the system? So that 1) it is ensured that students have the materials required for class, 2) by requiring everyone to purchase, you eliminate the casual piracy that goes on (if we didn't do this, we would have to charge more, 3) by allowing people to search across multiple books and manuals at the one time, the schools thought this was good stuff for the students to have.
9. We don't restrict publishers from being available on the disc. There isn't a monopoly on information here.
10. For quite a while some schools have required purchase of computers - sometimes they even specify brand...Is this a monopoly?
11. Dental school curriculums are a fixed entity. Everyone goes through all of the classes. Therefore, at some point during your time at school, you will need the book for a given class.
12. Can I share it with others? You can show them the books, but you can't copy it. The FAQ on the site is poorly worded.
13. We don't sell computers.
14. Our affiliation with Total Sports...We share a common investor. Our net infrastructure is shared with them for the time being.
15. Copy-restriction schemes are a necessary evil for electronic versions of content (otherwise you won't get electronic versions of some content...). I don't think there is any good argument around this. The honor system doesn't work. Does it? (unless you are Stephen King...)
What is a fair and equitable way of making sure that authors, illustrators and the middlemen who bring a electronic product to market get paid for their work?
We would love to know. Let us know if you have ideas.
Thanks,
Engineering, Vital Source Technologies
by MrBrklyn on Tuesday August 29, @11:07AM EST
(User #4775 Info)
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
Dear Sirs.
I've been following this discussion in detail and since I work for the
NYU Dental School, I would like to make a few comments about your
explanation of your product. I feel compelled to clarify a
a number of the issues that your product brings and explain to you
why most reasonable people would agree that your product is not
an acceptable means for the transmission of education
First, let me say that when you introduced the product
to the University, that it was not reviewed by the IS department.
Your company had done an end-run around the department,
and because this, I resigned from the school.
The reason why people are so upset by this is because, unlike what
you claim, your product does FAR beyond traditional protections of
Copyright. Actually, I think your fully aware of this because
you state right on your website that your going to end the
situation where Publishers are competing with their own
used books. Since the right of second sale is guaranteed as
part of the Fair Use Doctrine, right from the start your talking
against yourself.
The truth is, your product can not be allowed to stand because it
DOES threaten the foundations of Democracy and free speech in
this country. When the Copyright Office was making it's review of
classes of works to be be exempted from the DMCA, continually people
were asking specific cases. You would have qualified as that specific
case because you intrude on our Fair Use constitutional Guarantees in
the following specific ways.
First of all, one can not copy the textbooks on the disk. It is a
legal fact that owners of Books have this right under Constitutional
Law, but you deny it to your customers.
Secondly, you claim that you are licensing the material to the students.
In this case, the contract would not be valid because you couple it with
a mandate for ALL the students in the program. In order to be a
participant
in the educational activities at the university you Must Purchase
the media and the player. Contracts in which both partners are not
equally allowed to fairly negotiate are non-binding under case law.
New York University was concerned about some of these Fair Use issues.
As such, they guaranteed that printed books of all the material will
be available for students if they choose to buy them. But this is not
nearly far enough because it is a doubling of the expense to obtain
what Students already purchased in the first place.
On a broader level, if the VitalBook product is allowed to
pass without challenge, it will be mean the inevitable end to
public education and a free exchange of information.
Next will be the medical schools, then the engineering schools,
then undergraduate schooling, then High School Education, until
we reach the point where privately owned libraries and freedom
of discussion will be outlawed. As this products works, and with
the abusive power brought by the DMCA, I don't see my Grandchildren
ever owning a copy of Curious George or the Cat in the Hat in the
future. The publishers will have no incentive to produce paper copies
for home ownership. They'll just Lease digital copies for
a year to year rental.
Now - I want to answer some of your points.
1. This isn't the situation that RMS describes.
A licensed user can let someone look at their book.
They aren't allowed to give copies of the books to their friends,
but then again, you can't legally go Xerox a whole book either.
(This is regardless of the DMCA.)
As your aware, is not allowed to to give Their copy
to someone else, and according to your FAQ, they can not share it
with upper classmen because you threaten to sue them in plain
black and white on your web page. Furthermore, they can not
Sell their books to other students either. The prevention
of this alone is a violation of the students rights, even under the
DMCA. If an Upper Classman wants to use a lower classmans device
to find a paragraph of material - you website makes it clear that
in your opinion this is a violation of Copyright. Yet, every single
court decision and Section 107 of the Copyright Act, and the US
Constitution says your just plain wrong.
2. The users who decide to continue the service will get to
keep those editions of the books that they have when they leave
school.
Sirs -
This is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH. College Students who pay they're hard
earned money should be able to keep their book without your permission
as part of their basic right to property under the 4th amendment
of the US Constitution. What your describing is Stalinist at
best. I shouldn't even have to give you any reasons why someone
may not finish all four years of Dental school, because it's irrelevant
to the point that your stealing the personal property of the students if
they leave the school, but let me clue you into some of the reasons
why someone might not finish the four years, which would then mean
they would not be allowed to keep their books.
Reason Number one why students drop out - They run out of money and
the financial pressure of staying in school becomes too great. They
might try to re-enter later. Or they might not. But they've completely
lost their books, or the right to recoup the costs of the books by
resale...which is one of your stated aims in your "Partners" section.
Reason Number Two - Students may transfer to a different school using
a different product or books. Now, all the education they did until
this point become valueless because your time lock turns of the
software.
We are working out the details so that a subscription model is in
place for those folks who have graduated can have the
most up to date references in one place.
If they want to subscribe to get the latest information or not
is a personal decision for the graduate, and has nothing to do,
whatsoever, with the discussion.
Contrast this with the 40 year old dentist who still has their
textbooks from college. Do you want them to be using those 15 year
old books as a reference or the latest available information?
Right now (before VitalBook), they have to purchase the latest
edition at full cost - with us, they can pay less for a
subscription and stay up to date. If they don't want the subscription,
then they just keep the last edition that they received.
I want them to use whatever information they choose to use and not
be dictated to by VitalBooks. Dentists have continuing education
mandates which makes it important to them to get further education.
Your completely crossing the line when you ask this question. They
have Dental Association Journals, Research etc available to them.
They have no need of your product to stay up to date. I definitely
WANT my dentist to have the original books he learned with as
a point of reference when continuing his education as a professional.
Your product simple doesn't make that possible.
Either way, they get to keep access the books if they paid for them in school.
But they don't have Fair Use of them. They can't make a copy of an
excerpt for distribution at a Presentation, which is completely
Fair Use and legal under Copyright Law. And then you can go out of
business, or their computer can break. Your system makes the safety
of all the information the Graduate is using dependent on your good will
and health as a private corporation. This is not a risk the public
should be asked to bare.
3. VitalBooks cost less. There are a lot more books than the required amount before, and you get all that extra content for the
same price as you used to pay for less content on paper. You get more information for the same cost. This isn't a price gouging
ploy. You get more for the same price you would have paid with a paper version.
This is only relevant if we were talking about an open market. Since
your program mandates "100% penetration" of the "Market", and since
students do not own the books, but are forced to pay for them, your
discussion of the relative cost is confusing.
Your promising Vendors that they will make more money because they'll
sell more books, and then argue that it's cheaper for the student.
How is this Magic performed? Hmmm
Well - for one thing, you prevent the right of second sale, eliminating
the used book market, as you point out on your web site.
Secondly, you are forcing students to buy material they don't want
or need by taking the purchasing decision out of their hands and force
feeding them material which may or may not be apropiate for their
personal use. So your price fixing and using extortion.
4. Information isn't free. Someone had to write the textbook, someone had to draw the drawings, someone had edit the content,
someone had to review the content to make sure the content was correct. That goes into most every book.
And your point? It's not up to public to assure a profit.
For God Sakes, NYU Dental changes over 60K a year in tuition,
and then make a tidy profit with their dental clinics.
Let them publish their own material on the Internet if need be.
- Oh - but that's that you and your publishing partners are worried
about in the first place. If NYU Dental, the Largest Dental School
in the US gets serious about self publish material cheaply
with the Internet, and inexpensive tools for video production
and editing, then they cut the publishers out of the picture all
together.........
5. A VitalBook disc has ~ 7 GB of content and over 100 books on one disc.
So? The NY Public Library in multiples of that. Ever hear of
Index Medicus?
What's the point. Everyone has to carry the cost of 100 books
because you insist?
6. Schools determine what books go onto the disc. They give us a
list and we try to get every book on the list on the disc.
Usually, we even put more on the disc. I don't know of a case
where we limited what a school could put on a disc -
notwithstanding those publishers who we could not negotiate a
license with.
Oh - your being very Coy. Of COURSE you include MORE on the disk
than NYU asks for. It's part of your guarantee to publishers.
The question is why should NYU have to PAY for more than they're asking
for..
7. Our WWW site sucks. It is so bad that we have been obsessed about making a good product that we dropped the ball on
Internet marketing?
No - you dropped the ball in Civics and consideration of the welfare
of the public. Your website is quite good enough at making clear
your total disrespect for Students and the American Publics right to
own what they purchase and freedom to educate.
8. Why is purchase mandated at the schools who use the system?
So that 1) it is ensured that students have the materials
required for class,
That's just not true..
For your own website:
the core concept of the VSTi
solution hinges on the concept that static content
is no longer sold to students for a one-time
payment; continually updated information is now
licensed to students for a recurring, yearly fee.
Students license books from year to year, with the
opportunity to continue those licenses throughout
their professional lives as continuing education. This
gives publishers the opportunity to offer continually
updated information in exchange for a revenue
stream that adds additional revenue each year,
instead of simply replacing revenue each year.
In the VSTi model, students are mandated by
universities to pay a yearly fee licensing their
reference curriculum. That fee is forwarded to VSTi,
and VSTi is the conduit through which individual
publishers receive license fees for individual titles.
Publishers receive a mandated, preset fee for every
student for every title chosen by professors.
Because the service is a global curriculum
application, the fee comes in from each student each
of the four years of their studies.
So, a book that in the past was "required" or
"recommended" for a given course, and which
carried the weighty overhead of production,
distribution, and return, is now licensed by every
student every year and distributed digitally.
The reason for mandating the students is to stifle competition and
destroy the market.
2) by requiring everyone to purchase, you eliminate the casual piracy
that goes on (if we didn't do this, we would have to charge more,
What you call Casual Piracy is called "Fair Use" and is
constitutionally mandated by our founding fathers to protect the
public from people ..... actually people like you.
3) by allowing people to search across multiple books and manuals
at the one time, the schools thought this was good stuff for the
students to have.
Fine - but that has nothing to do with mandating the product.
9. We don't restrict publishers from being available on the disc. There isn't a monopoly on information here.
Mandating the use of product and forcing payment is the very definition
of Monopoly.
10. For quite a while some schools have required purchase of computers - sometimes they even specify brand...Is this a
monopoly?
Yes - and NY State has laws against this called the Second Source rule.
This is actually a criminal violation of NY State Law.
11. Dental school curriculums are a fixed entity. Everyone goes through all of the classes. Therefore, at some point during your
time at school, you will need the book for a given class.
Run that by me again? Your making them pay for material that they
don't need and prevent them from reselling it in the after market.
12. Can I share it with others? You can show them the books, but you can't copy it. The FAQ on the site is poorly worded.
It's worded perfectly
13. We don't sell computers.
We don't sell our rights!
14. Our affiliation with Total Sports...We share a common investor. Our net infrastructure is shared with them for the time being.
15. Copy-restriction schemes are a necessary evil for electronic versions of content (otherwise you won't get electronic
versions of some content...). I don't think there is any good argument around this. The honor
Don't publish and die as a business. That's your problem.
Brooklyn Knows the Charmer under me.
by VitalGeek
(geekNOSPAM@vitalviewer.com)
on Tuesday August 29, @01:30PM EST
(User #227449 Info)
http://www.vitalviewer.com
>First, let me say that when you introduced the product to the University,
>that it was not reviewed by the IS department. Your company had done an
>end-run around the department, and because this, I resigned from the school.
Last time I checked, academic departments take care of determining what content gets taught and required in a curriculum.
>First of all, one can not copy the textbooks on the disk. It is a legal
>fact that owners of Books have this right under Constitutional Law, but
>you deny it to your customers.
You aren't allowed to xerox books and give them away under any law. You have previously stated feelings on music belonging to society and not the artist, so we know your perspective on copyright law.
>Secondly, you claim that you are licensing the material to the students.
>In this case, the contract would not be valid because you couple it with a
>mandate for ALL the students in the program. In order to be a participant
>in the educational activities at the university you Must Purchase the
>media and the player. Contracts in which both partners are not equally
>allowed to fairly negotiate are non-binding under case law.
We have contracts with Universities. As is obvious with NYU, we negoiate with the universities who then mandate students to purchase the disc. Your example doesn't apply.
>New York University was concerned about some of these Fair Use issues. As
>such, they guaranteed that printed books of all the material will be
>available for students if they choose to buy them. But this is not nearly
>far enough because it is a doubling of the expense to obtain what Students
>already purchased in the first place.
We offer our service to freshmen. How have the students already purchased this?
>On a broader level, if the VitalBook product is allowed to pass without
>challenge, it will be mean the inevitable end to public education and a
>free exchange of information.
Yeah, like that is going to happen.
>Next will be the medical schools, then the engineering schools, then
>undergraduate schooling, then High School Education, until we reach the
>point where privately owned libraries and freedom of discussion will be
>outlawed. As this products works, and with the abusive power brought by
>the DMCA, I don't see my Grandchildren ever owning a copy of Curious
>George or the Cat in the Hat in the future. The publishers will have no
>incentive to produce paper copies for home ownership. They'll just Lease
>digital copies for a year to year rental.
A few things on this point.
1. We aren't the DMCA.
2. The only disincentive for publishers not producing the paper version of a book is if it isn't making money.
Why don't you ask the 13 health sciences publishers who went bankrupt over the past 7 years why they went bankrupt? Why can't you purchase any version of their textbooks now? Ever think about that?
>As your aware, is not allowed to to give Their copy to someone else, and
>according to your FAQ, they can not share it with upper classmen because
>you threaten to sue them in plain black and white on your web page.
>Furthermore, they can not Sell their books to other students either. The
>prevention of this alone is a violation of the students rights, even under
>the DMCA. If an Upper Classman wants to use a lower classmans device to
>find a paragraph of material - you website makes it clear that in your
>opinion this is a violation of Copyright. Yet, every single court decision
>and Section 107 of the Copyright Act, and the US Constitution says your
>just plain wrong.
They can let others read their books - but they can't copy them. How hard is it to understand this?
>Sirs - This is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH. College Students who pay they're hard
>earned money should be able to keep their book without your permission as
>part of their basic right to property under the 4th amendment of the US
>Constitution. What your describing is Stalinist at best.
Stalinist? There are very few modern comtemporaries to the atrocities committed under Stalin. You can find modern counterparts to the murder and oppression of Stalin in different places, but I am pretty sure none of those work in the e-books industry.
>Reason Number one why students drop out - They run out of money and the
>financial pressure of staying in school becomes too great.
Do you have statistics to back this up for Dental School education?
>Reason Number Two - Students may transfer to a different school using a
>different product or books. Now, all the education they did until this
>point become valueless because your time lock turns of the software.
All their education becomes valueless because of the time limits on our beta software? Wow, I didn't know I had that compiler setting turned on....
>I want them to use whatever information they choose to use and not be
>dictated to by VitalBooks. Dentists have continuing education mandates
>which makes it important to them to get further education. Your completely
>crossing the line when you ask this question. They have Dental Association
>Journals, Research etc available to them. They have no need of your
>product to stay up to date. I definitely WANT my dentist to have the
>original books he learned with as a point of reference when continuing his
>education as a professional. Your product simple doesn't make that possible.
We restrict people from being able to buy journals and research? Wow, I didn't know we could do that...as for my question being out of line, I think it is important to know how up to date ones dentist is. You may not care. You may have false teeth.
>Your promising Vendors that they will make more money because they'll sell
>more books, and then argue that it's cheaper for the student. How is this
>Magic performed? Hmmm
Publishers print on paper. Very little of the cost of a book is for the actual content. Most of the cost is the printing, binding and transport of the book. Therefore, publishers can charge less for a book that doesn't have to be printed on paper. So, for the same cost as the paper books, we can make available to schools more content for the same price of the paper books before.
>Secondly, you are forcing students to buy material they don't want or need
>by taking the purchasing decision out of their hands and force feeding
>them material which may or may not be apropiate for their personal use. So
>your price fixing and using extortion.
Since the content on the disc is set by the school based on their curriculum, it seems to follow that the material is important for the students use. Extortion requires an excessive or exorbitant charge. Seeing as how we are the same cost as the paper versions, I don't see how that applies.
>And your point? It's not up to public to assure a profit. For God Sakes,
>NYU Dental changes over 60K a year in tuition, and then make a tidy profit
>with their dental clinics. Let them publish their own material on the
>Internet if need be. - Oh - but that's that you and your publishing
>partners are worried about in the first place. If NYU Dental, the Largest
>Dental School in the US gets serious about self publish material cheaply
>with the Internet, and inexpensive tools for video production and editing,
>then they cut the publishers out of the picture all together.........
Who do you think writes and reviews books? Academic faculty. All you are doing in your example is making the University a publisher and taking away the rights of the authors and illustrators.
>What's the point. Everyone has to carry the cost of 100 books because you
>insist?
I didn't. We didn't. The schools decide the list based on their curriculm which every dental student is required to take.
>Oh - your being very Coy. Of COURSE you include MORE on the disk than NYU
>asks for. It's part of your guarantee to publishers. The question is why
>should NYU have to PAY for more than they're asking for..
Actually, they aren't charged for the extra material.
>No - you dropped the ball in Civics and consideration of the welfare of
>the public. Your website is quite good enough at making clear your total
>disrespect for Students and the American Publics right to own what they
>purchase and freedom to educate.
The reason we started this project was to try and solve the problem that fewer and fewer books were available because publishers were going under.
Your notion of purchase is incorrect. For example, you can't perform a play from a copyrighted work legally without paying royalties to the author, nor can you take a vinyl LP you purchased, and play it in a restaurant without paying royalties to music publishers. This has gone on for quite a while without impacting the welfare of society.
>What you call Casual Piracy is called "Fair Use" and is constitutionally
>mandated by our founding fathers to protect the public from people .....
>actually people like you.
If you copy one of our books, you copy the entire book. That isn't allowed under fair use with the paper versions. Not for non-profits, not for anyone.
>Mandating the use of product and forcing payment is the very definition of
>Monopoly.
The school requires that. Not us.
>Mandating the use of product and forcing payment is the very definition of
>Monopoly.
NYU gets to pick whatever books they want. A monopoly would restrict choice to the school. We don't.
>Run that by me again? Your making them pay for material that they don't
>need and prevent them from reselling it in the after market.
They don't need any of the books required for a class? Fascinating.
>12. Can I share it with others? You can show them the books, but you can't
>copy it. The FAQ on the site is poorly worded.
>
>It's worded perfectly
Uh, what part of show and copy do you not understand?
>13. We don't sell computers.
>We don't sell our rights!
We don't give away intellectual property.
>Don't publish and die as a business. That's your problem.
I don't get your point.
by MrBrklyn on Tuesday August 29, @10:06PM EST
(User #4775 Info)
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
Last time I checked, academic departments take care of determining w
hat content gets taught and required in a
curriculum.
The last time I check, Information Systems is the source of educated evaluation
of technology, including the ethical questions and reviewing the best alternativ
es for delivering digital services.
You aren't allowed to xerox books and give them away under any law. You have pre
viously stated feelings on music belonging to society and not the artist, so we
know your perspective on copyright law.
This is an unhanded, unbecoming statement. My views on copyright is not the iss
ue. It's your over reaching of copyright and suspending Fair Use rights which i
s the issue.
We have contracts with Universities. As is obvious with NYU, we nego
iate with the universities who then mandate
students to purchase the disc. Your example doesn't apply.
Wrong. It's the students paying for the service and the student individuals bei
ng licensed. Your completely wrong and bordering on being dishonest.
-On a broader level, if the VitalBook product is allowed to pass without
challenge, it will be mean the inevitable end to public education and a free exchange of information. -
Yeah, like that is going to happen.
As a matter of fact, it is happening right and people argued for the right to do
this during the hearings at the Copyright Office in Washington DC and Standford
University. You must of missed those.
1. We aren't the DMCA.
2. The only disincentive for publishers not producing the paper version of a
book is if it isn't making money.
Why don't you ask the 13 health sciences publishers who went bankrupt over th
e past 7 years why they went bankrupt?
Why can't you purchase any version of their textbooks now? Ever think about t
hat?
First - Your are not the DMCA because the DMCA stands for the Digital Millinium Copyright Act of 1998.
Second - The reason not to publish on paper is because the DMCA and VitalBooks goves them a legal extortion sceme which is just unethical.
Third - The Market has spoken.... there are too many publishers publishing too ineffecei
ntly. A Free market person like you (and me) should have no trouble with that.
Why do we need any of these publishers. Why can't people publish on their own
without the Book Publishers? Why are you in the way of progress and efficiencie
s of the Market?
They can let others read their books - but they can't copy them. How hard is it
to understand this?
No - They can not according to the license. And even if they could, they're overly dependend on your prior aproval to be within reasonable fair use of the material. Your Company is willing to trade civil rights for Copyright Protections that are extra constitutional. That's a dangerous thing. Read http://fairuse.nylxs.com for better insight. I no more want to protect publishers than I want to protect anyone else who has a business model which can not be sustained.
Uh, what part of show and copy do you not understand?
The part not in your FAQ. What is in your FAQ is clear and agrees with the DMCA and the opinions voiced by others in your industry at the Copyright Hearings. I can't share it with an upperclassman, or any unregistered user.
And for your information, Copying is ALSO a Constitutional Right. Giving Copies away is even legal sometimes, especially in education, and sharing information is completely essential for a healthy society.
BTW - your quoting and copying of some of my message is a violation of my copyright in your world view .... go figure.
-- We don't give away intellectual property. --
--Don't publish and die as a business. That's your problem. --
--- I don't get your point.---
That's the problem.
BTW - You DO give away copyrighted material at the point of sale. At that point, certain rights to that material has now transported to the customer as part of their rights under the 4th and 1st amendment of the Bill of Rights.
Brooklyn Knows the Charmer under me.
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